We spoke with Pimetae’s Head of Retail Charlotte Wood about what to do when a buyer says no, why her Sainsbury’s buyer said Pimentae is “so good” to work with, how she’d grow the brand with £50k and if it’s ever a good idea to turn down stores.
P.S: We’ve worked with Charlotte first-hand and know how good she is at what she does. Pens out.
_________________
You joined Pimentae nearly two years ago and are now Head of Retail. What does that mean and which accounts do you look after?
We’re a small team, so the scope is wider than it would be in a bigger company. Primarily, I look after grocery accounts: Waitrose, Co-op, Sainsbury’s, Ocado and Morrisons. And we’ve got some exciting new accounts coming up too. I also cover a couple of foodservice and travel bits.
Five months ago, you finally landed Sainsbury’s after what you described as an “emotional rollercoaster.” Take us through it.
The whole process of getting to that point was an emotional rollercoaster. I think this is representative of a lot of challenger brand journeys. During the two years we were pitching to Sainsbury’s, buyers changed. And we’re in a category where there’s lots of innovation and newness so it’s really competitive.
Over that time, it was really about having a consistent message, showing up with the data and demonstrating how our performance could improve the category.
There was a yes, then there was a no, then there was a yes - and there was a no. We virtually had a yes and then a no two weeks later. We finally got confirmation around Christmas last year for the March listing.
What were the Buyers pushing back on - and what changed in the end?
The big pushback was pure commercials. Usually there would be a negotiation - you’d propose something and kind of see or feel where that landed. But because it’s just so competitive in this category, it was just a no.
We didn’t know why, but when we asked, she said: “Well, your commercials weren’t strong enough.” Had she come back and said: “Look, I really like the product, but the commercials aren’t where I need them to be,” we could have reviewed them.
We reviewed our whole proposal, moved investment around and made sure our commercials were stronger and aligned to the category.
You’ve said: “‘no’ doesn’t mean never - turning a no into a yes takes patience, timing, relationships and trust.” Practically, what should a NAM do after a Buyer says no?
The first thing is to understand why it’s a no, because you’re never going to turn it into a yes if you don’t understand why. Say: “I just want to understand why, for future reference”. Then take a step back and look at how you can do things differently or change the way you’ve done things.
If their objection is genuinely that there’s not room in the fixture, it’s: what do we outperform in the fixture, or why do we recruit a different shopper? Come at it from a slightly different angle based on their needs and KPIs.
Don’t just keep emailing the buyer for no reason. Go with genuine information or genuine newness that will give them a reason to reply, and show them that you’re listening.
The Sainsbury’s buyer commented publicly that it had been “so good” working with you. Why do you think the relationship has worked so well - and what makes somebody a great supplier to work with?
I think it is making their life easier, not being annoying and being really clear on what you need or what they need from you.
We’re also very lucky with the category we’re in. We have a lot of events, like Taste of London, branded events and collaborations - fun things to come to that are engaging. It is always nice to have a bit of a relationship with the Buyer outside of just the day-to-day work, because then you’re naturally going to earn their trust more. So if there are any brand events or new launches you could invite them to, do it.
Most Buyers I arrange to meet face-to-face maybe once every six months, but then we see them at events outside of that. Maybe every three months we’re seeing them face-to-face.
You’re now five months into Sainsbury’s. What have you done to give the launch the best possible chance of succeeding?
One thing we really use is our socials. We have a great community of loyal followers, so we know that when we talk to them, they will then go into store. Constantly remind people you’re listed. Also, use your CRM database. If you’ve got people signed up and you know they’re loyal, drive them into store.
We’ve also been doing a lot of sampling. We’ve done it ourselves in the vicinity of stores and created an engaging moment around it.
We sampled in Clapham and, in the four weeks before versus the four weeks after, saw a 40% uplift in the local store. That was just one sampling session.
We were also giving coupons away, so even if people don’t use the coupon, they have something to remember. If people are walking away with it, at least they’re going to read it that one extra time. It’s increasing awareness in cheap ways, really.
If I gave you another £50,000 to grow Pimentae in Sainsbury’s, where would you spend it?
I would definitely spend it on more sampling. And then, it’s hard to get, but also any additional feature space you can get, like a shipper or something.
Plus, a good thing to spend money on is online because it’s often cheaper, but it’s still on the Sainsbury’s platform where people are going to purchase.
You’ve said that distribution isn’t everything. Would you ever turn down stores?
You could have 1,000 stores but not be selling, or 200 stores and be selling amazingly. The latter would be better, really, because then you’re going to be able to grow from that base. Making sure you’re in the right stores to sell and grow is key.
For example, in Co-op, there are so many different shopper types and demographics within the estate, it might not be right to go into all of them.
So yeah, I might turn down stores that weren’t right and focus on driving ROS in the stores that were.
Your new Tesco Buyer actually approached Pimentae. How did that happen - and what are you doing differently this time?
The new Tesco Buyer reached out to us on LinkedIn! I connected with him, and then he messaged the Pimentae page saying he’d followed the brand and would like to catch up. I’ve never had that before. We didn’t even see it at first, so it took us two weeks to reply!
We’re taking a different approach with the new Buyer, going more from the shopper occasion-led angle now, which I’m hoping lands well with him.
You’ve risen through the ranks and now manage more junior salespeople. What separates a really strong NAM from an average one?
You need to understand your numbers and make sure you’re on top of them so you can make effective decisions. Then when you’re doing a JBP, you’ve got all the data there already and don’t need to spend time looking for it. They’re the foundations.
The other one is actually listening and understanding what the retailer wants, because there can be friction between what your team wants and what the retailer wants. If you understand what the external retails wants you can communiate that internally and try to bridge the gap.
Pimentae raised more than £100,000 on the first day of its Crowdcube campaign. Why did you choose crowdfunding - and why do you think the community responded so strongly?
It was part of a wider investment round. We had £800k from existing investors, and then we felt it was the right time to launch crowdfunding. We knew we had a lot of loyal fans - a cult following - and it felt like a good time, given our distribution is increasing, to bring them on board for the journey.
I honestly think it’s because Alice and Wynter are at the forefront of the business. They appear on social media and they’re very personable. Listening to their story and how they started the business gives people that emotional connection.